1. Bernardo Telles
  2. General
  3. Wednesday, 14 March 2018
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Hello,
I've got the following setup and am encountering huge lags when typing.

OS: Linux
Keymouse version: 1.30
Connection: USB, left hand -> right hand -> computer

Other keyboards seem to do fine, but the Keymouse sometimes has a 1 second to multi-second (up to 10 seconds, sometimes if I keep typing )...I mean, it's a great memory game to try and remember what you just typed, but it's not exactly what I look for in a keyboard. :-P

Maybe a more recent version of the software fixes this, but I can't seem to find 1.52 versions of linux software. Any thoughts?
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Barnardo.

Sorry to hear about the delays. Is the KeyMouse software running in the background when the delays happen? If you close it, does it get better?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Wow. Thoroughly impressed how quickly you replied!
Sadly, the keymouse software is not running on the computer, and the only other process that even has the word mouse is a normal system daemon.
Here's the output of the process list::


$ ps -ef | grep keymouse
[user] 87637 87389 0 05:41 pts/0 00:00:00 grep --color=auto keymouse
$ ps -ef | grep mouse
[user] 39059 38928 0 Mar14 ? 00:00:02 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/cinnamon-settings-daemon/csd-mouse
[user] 89731 87389 0 05:44 pts/0 00:00:00 grep --color=auto mouse

  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 2
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ok. Sounds like it's not software related. Do you have any more specs on the computer and OS that our engineers can use to test? For example, is it Ubuntu Linux? We'll test on our end to see if we can reproduce the issue and come up with a solution.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Sure, here you go. Thanks for all the help!


uname -a:
Linux [host/username] 4.9.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.82-1+deb9u3 (2018-03-02) x86_64 GNU/Linux

sudo lshw (USB info only):
*-usb:0
description: USB controller
product: C600/X79 series chipset USB2 Enhanced Host Controller #2
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1a
bus info: pci@0000:00:1a.0
version: 05
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm debug ehci bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=ehci-pci latency=0
resources: irq:16 memory:ef34b000-ef34b3ff
*-usbhost
product: EHCI Host Controller
vendor: Linux 4.9.0-6-amd64 ehci_hcd
physical id: 1
bus info: usb@3
logical name: usb3
version: 4.09
capabilities: usb-2.00
configuration: driver=hub slots=3 speed=480Mbit/s
*-usb
description: USB hub
product: Integrated Rate Matching Hub
vendor: Intel Corp.
physical id: 1
bus info: usb@3:1
version: 0.00
capabilities: usb-2.00
configuration: driver=hub slots=6 speed=480Mbit/s
*-usb
description: USB hub
product: USB 2.0 Hub
vendor: Terminus Technology Inc.
physical id: 3
bus info: usb@3:1.3
version: 1.11
capabilities: usb-2.00
configuration: driver=hub maxpower=100mA slots=4 speed=480Mbit/s
*-usb:0
description: Keyboard
product: KeyMouse Alpha - Right
vendor: ZZ, Inc.
physical id: 1
bus info: usb@3:1.3.1
version: c.f5
serial: 12
capabilities: usb-1.10
configuration: driver=usbhid maxpower=64mA speed=12Mbit/s
*-usb:1
description: USB hub
product: USB 2.0 Hub
vendor: Terminus Technology Inc.
physical id: 2
bus info: usb@3:1.3.2
version: 1.11
capabilities: usb-2.00
configuration: driver=hub maxpower=100mA slots=4 speed=480Mbit/s
*-usb
description: Keyboard
product: KeyMouse Alpha - Left
vendor: ZZ, Inc.
physical id: 1
bus info: usb@3:1.3.2.1
version: c.f5
serial: 12
capabilities: usb-1.10
configuration: driver=usbhid maxpower=64mA speed=12Mbit/s

  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 4
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the info. We have not been able to reproduce the issue yet on our end. If you plug your KeyMouse set into another computer, does it still have the same issue?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I just want to say that I can confirm that issue. And it seems to happen randomly it's not a constant thing. For me, it's happening on Windows.

And yea if you keep typing the delay increases and then suddenly it spits out multiple sentences.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 6
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Very strange. If you have any clues how to reproduce the issue, please let us know. The engineers have been testing on our end, but cant reproduce the issue yet. Do you have any estimate how often it occurs? Also, does the same KeyMouse set have the issue on other computers?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks again for all the help. Giving it a try on Mac for a full day, and will report back if I start seeing it again.
FWIW, lordmord's experience matches mine as well.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 8
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Bernardo Thanks for testing. We're looking forward to hearing how it goes on the Mac and if there are any clues to what triggers the issue.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ok, it appears that on Mac's the problem does not manifest itself. I tried using a Mac for two days and was not able to reproduce. I'll try to ask around over here. Thanks for all the responses.
Other than this one thing, I'm loving the product and cant' wait for you to put it in production and lower the price. ;) :)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 10
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Bernardo Thanks for the info. I'm glad it's working on the Mac, and I'm glad you're loving your KeyMouse. :) I hope we can find some way to reproduce the issue so we can correct it.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
atm it's happening quite a bit. Even as I type this message. And it started after about 5 characters.

One thing I noticed was that the whole OS seems to freeze. I can still move my mouse but clicking doesn't do anything. This is on Linux.

Since paying some more attention I don't think it happened on Windows.

Hope that info helps.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 12
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@lordmord Thanks for the info. We'll keep checking to see if we can find a way to reproduce the issue.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 13
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
It's really too bad that we can't reproduce it elsewhere. Did your guys really try to reproduce it on Linux? I've tried it with a few Linux machines and they all have the same problem.This is a great product other than this one relatively major handicap. As I type this message, it'll be th elast time I use the Keymouse. I attribute any typos to the 10+ seconds lag beween typing and seeing letters appear on the screen. Sorry Heber...gave it the good ole' college try, but just couldn't stand the lag.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 14
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Bernardo We will get this fixed for you. I hope you will still give it a second chance when we solve it. We have 1 Ubuntu Linux machine in our office. We tried on that with no issues (with both USB and Bluetooth interfaces). We also have multiple PCB engineers in Taiwan at one of our suppliers' location that use Linux, and they have not seen the lag with their testing. Do you have a Bluetooth dongle you can test with? I just wonder if the issue is specific to the USB interface or if Bluetooth does the same. Also, do you have any alternative USB cables to try? I'm willing to do a FaceTime or Skype call with you to resolve this if you'll give us a second chance.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 15
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@lordmord Does yours still have the issue?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 16
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes, it still happens.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 17
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@lordmord Can I do a Skype call with screen share with you to see and help diagnose...or maybe a FaceTime call? We want to get to the bottom of it, but we haven't been able to find the common denominator for what is causing this.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 18
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Bernardo Also, do you have access to a Windows or Mac computer you can use temporarily to download the latest software (to install the latest firmware) to the devices and see if that fixes it? We're planning to post an update to the Linux software later this week.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 19
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
FYI, I did a lot more testing this afternoon on Linux with no delays. I just uploaded an update to the Linux software. Please try it and the firmware update available within it (available from the download page). I hope that fixes the issue.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 20
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Just tried updating the firmware based on the latest download (it updated to 55/17T...) and still had the same problem. :-/ I don't have a bluetooth dongle to try on this machine, but will try to get one. Thanks for stickin' through this.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 21
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Bernardo You mentioned you have other computers you tested on with the same issue. This may sound odd, but do you have a computer that has the issue that you are willing to send to us and allow us to test with? We would pay shipping both ways (to us for testing & fixing the issue, and back to you). That may be the fastest way for us to reproduce the issue and solve it.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 22
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Bernardo Also, is the USB firmware 17T3 or 17T2?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 23
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Bernardo Did you get my most recent messages?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 24
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@Bernardo We have found this issue exists on some of the newer versions of Xorg, and is likely not specific to KeyMouse. If you plug in 2 non-KeyMouse keyboards and type using both of them, does it lag? In our testing this is the case.

See others with the same issue: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1035882/input-delay-when-using-two-keyboards-under-ubuntu-18-04-xorg
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 25
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Heber. Sorry for the hiatus there. Yup, I got your message about sending a computer over, and that was not an option.
The link you sent definitely matches my experience though. There is some lag when I only have one hand plugged in, but much higher lag when I have two hands plugged in.
Bummer, I'll try to see if there's a fix for it somewhere in the Xorg universe.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 26
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ok. I just wanted to let you know we finally were able to reproduce it and found that it was likely an Xorg issue. I hope there is a fix out there somewhere. We haven't found it yet (except that some people switched to a different UI than Xorg). We'll let you know if we find anything.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 27
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ok, FWIW, here's a wireshark usbmon capture file that the techies at my job thought might be of use:

To create this I typed one letter on each hand repeatedly for about 10 seconds.

Between lines 150 and 151 you see the two-second lag.
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 28
Heber Allred
KeyMouse Support
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I loaded this file and can see what you mean. Have you tried the devices on a Windows or Mac computer? If so, do you see similar results? I just wonder if the bug in Xorg for dual keyboards is the root cause. I know Wireshark is showing the data delayed, but it's possible the delay is caused on the receiving end at the computer.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 29
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yeah, there's definitely no lag on a Mac computer. The problem is just with Linux, and possibly just xorg. Oh well.
Thanks for all the quick responses!
Bernie
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 30
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Just a random thought: I wonder what would happen on the same operating system if you were to connect 3 USB devices simultaneously - one keyboard and two *regular* mice and then (with the help of a friend or perhaps if you're really talented use your feet or something.. put both mice in motion and meanwhile type. I'm wondering if maybe the lags have to do with your system getting confused by dual and conflicting mouse input while typing even if that dual mouse motion might perhaps be subtle??
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 31
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I've just received my Keymouse Track today and was happily assembling it from the kit right up to the moment when it rendered completely useless with this huge lag, 100% cpu usage and UI freeze.
I tried all combinations of connections via usb and bluetooth with all having same problem.
If you guys say you support Linux than please address this issue. I'm using the most popular stock version of it: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 32
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Alessandro Valerio, I'm not sure if you're using Xorg or Wayland, or if you read any of the previous threads, but there seems to be a bug in Xorg that does not allow 2 keyboards to be connected at the same time without freezing the computer. Each hand of the KeyMouse devices show up as it's own device, so when you connect them to the computer, they show up as two separate keyboards.

Other users are having a similar issue with non-KeyMouse keyboards as well:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1035882/input-delay-when-using-two-keyboards-under-ubuntu-18-04-xorg

The only solution we've seen (if you are actually using Xorg) is to use a different UI.

I hope this is helpful.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 33
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the quick reply, Alma Allred. As I sad, I'm using stock Ubuntu 18.04 LTS without any modifications. I read all thread and found relevant issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-gnome3/+bug/1777708 and I understand the technical details of the matter.
I'm using Ubuntu at work and at home for the last 5+ years and am aware of the never ending issues on this platform. More so, when one tries to go some custom route. Wayland instead of X.org is not an option just because it was not set as default in Ubuntu. Going marginal route with some other less known UIs is not a good idea for a person who wants existing features just work. Take screen-sharing, for example - it is not supported in Wayland (the project with 9 years of development).
So, the question is whether you are going to fix it to support Ubuntu as the most popular case for Linux.
Before that happens the split Keymouse keyboard is very unfortunately not usable under this platform.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 34
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Alessandro Valerio, Unfortunately, the bug issue is out of our hands, as it has something to do with Xorg UI, not with KeyMouse. I wish we knew of a workaround, but right now, the only option we know of is to switch UI's.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. General
  3. # 35
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